Problem with any non-US keyboard layout?

Problem with any non-US keyboard layout?

PostPosted by Arne Jørgensen » Sat May 30, 2009 10:50 am

As a native Dane I use a Danish keyboard with the standard Danish keyboard layout.


Certain APL characters are not mapped to any of the available keys, e.g. the two horisontal arrows for assignment and (old fashioned) goto. Fairly critical.


I can switch keyboard layout from DA to EN on the fly (having activated both in my Windows configuration), but one thing is using a keyboard without the APL characters on it (after 27 years of APL it's become second nature), another thing, much more confusing, is to write with a completely different keyboard layout where even parenthesis, brackets, colons, plus, minus, equal etc. no longer are found on the keys bearing their pictures.


So my advice to non-US users of NARS here and now: activate and switch to EN keyboard layout when writing code, then all characters are available - if you can find them.


Plea to the NARS team: please provide support for more keyboard layouts or, perhaps better, give us users a tool to define our own keyboard mappings and exchange them here on this forum.

Arne Jørgensen
 
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PostPosted by forummaster » Sat May 30, 2009 1:37 pm

I'd be happy to support your keyboard, but I'm not sure of where I can find a description of it along with where you expect the APL symbols to be, and what keystrokes invoke them.
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PostPosted by ADel » Sun May 31, 2009 4:07 am

I think the best solution would be to be able to define own keyboard layout as suggested by Arne (Plea to the NARS team: /.../ or, perhaps better, give us users a tool to define our own keyboard mappings and exchange them here on this forum.)

This was possible with APL*PLUS PC in which you could define a function (loaded with the latent expression in the startup workspace); this was done with "pokes" if I remember well. I did redefine the keyboard to get the APL symbols with Alt+ or Shift+Alt+ along the normal Belgian Azerty characters at their place.

This solution is better to define keyboards.
For example the AZERTY keyboard is not unique, I know at least the French and the Belgian versions with very annoying different positions for very used keys.
QWWERTY keyboards are even more different.

Unfortunately I can not help!

Alain
ADel
 
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DA 101 keyboard for comparison

PostPosted by Arne Jørgensen » Sun May 31, 2009 11:08 am

Here you find the layout for a Danish 101 key keyboard.


Lower case



Upper case



Special case (AltGr = right Alt key)



I have attached a suggested APL layout. Lower and upper case keys should preferably be left unchanged.


Rgds,


Arne

Arne Jørgensen
 
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PostPosted by forummaster » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:32 pm

{37.81}Arne Jørgensen wrote:
{37.81}Arne Jørgensen wrote:
Here you find the layout for a Danish 101 key keyboard.

Sorry to take so long to respond. Quite some time ago I implemented a mechanism similar to the one found in APL2 where you may define your own keyboard layout and save it for subsequent use every time you load NARS2000.

If you will use this feature to define a standard Danish keyboard (and send to me the relevant section from your NARS2000.INI file), I'd be glad to incorporate it into the shipping product.

To define your own layout,

1. Select Edit > Customize... > Keyboards
2. Select an existing layout close to your desired layout.
3. Click on the "Copy..." button and enter a keyboard layout name of your choosing (e.g. Danish 101)
4. Select the appropriate character from the Box/NLS/APL/abc/123 area and click on the corresponding key to place that character on that key.
5. Repeat for all key and shift combinations.
6. Click on OK
7. Exit NARS2000 so the keyboard layout is written to disk.
8. Send to me (bsmith@sudleyplace.com) the contents of the [KeybLayout-nnn] section from your NARS2000.INI file.

Many thanks in advance for taking the time to do this!
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PostPosted by ADel » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:18 am

Hi!

I defined a keyboard based on the French Belgian layout, it works OK, but there is still some problems:
- on my keyboard, there are so called "dead keys" for ^, ¨ and ~. Is it possible to define that?
- more important, the numerical keyboard doesn't work; this is annoying because on the keyboard, all the numerals are to be entered as capitals.

Is there a solution?

Thanks,

Alain
ADel
 
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PostPosted by forummaster » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:55 am

{37.350}ADel wrote:
{37.350}ADel wrote:
I defined a keyboard based on the French Belgian layout, it works OK, but there is still some problems:
- on my keyboard, there are so called "dead keys" for ^, ¨ and ~. Is it possible to define that?
- more important, the numerical keyboard doesn't work; this is annoying because on the keyboard, all the numerals are to be entered as capitals.

I'm not sure about the dead keys. If I understand them correctly, they are part of a two-character glyph (akin to the old 2741 overstrike). Do you have a reference as to how they work and which keys participate in this sequence?

When you say that the numerical keyboard doesn't work, I'm not sure what you mean. For example, when the NumLock key is active, pressing keys on the keypad does what?

Could you send to me the keyboard layout you are using so I may try it here? See the previous message in this topic for how to extract the layout and where to send it. Many thanks in advance for your help.
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PostPosted by ADel » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:55 am

When I use the numerical keypad, it mimics the behaviour of the upper keys row, the one which has the figures on a Qwerty keyboard.
But as on a Belgian azerty keyboard, this row, unshifted, gives letters: &é"'(§è!çà)-. Shifted it gives the figures 1234567890°_
When the numerical keypad is off, it behaves like the cursors, if it is on, it gives the letters above.

I give below the definitions from Nars2000.ini
Alain

[KeybLayout-0]
KeybLayoutName=Alain-BE (Alt)
KeybScanCode2B=2
KeybExtraKeyRow3=0
KeybUseCXV=1
KeybUseZY=1
KeybUseSEQ=1
Count=79
KSC00=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC01=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC02=0026, 00A8, 0000, 007C, 0031, 2261, 0000, 0000
KSC03=00E9, 00AF, 0000, 0040, 0032, 2262, 0000, 0000
KSC04=0022, 003C, 0000, 0023, 0033, 2352, 0000, 0000
KSC05=0027, 2264, 0000, 0000, 0034, 234B, 0000, 0000
KSC06=0028, 003D, 0000, 0000, 0035, 233D, 0000, 0000
KSC07=00A7, 2265, 0000, 005E, 0036, 2349, 0000, 0000
KSC08=00E8, 003E, 0000, 0000, 0037, 2296, 0000, 0000
KSC09=0021, 2260, 0000, 0000, 0038, 235F, 0000, 0000
KSC0A=00E7, 2228, 0000, 007B, 0039, 2371, 0000, 0000
KSC0B=00E0, 2227, 0000, 007D, 0030, 2372, 0000, 0000
KSC0C=0029, 00D7, 0000, 0000, 00B0, 0021, 0000, 0000
KSC0D=002D, 00F7, 0000, 0000, 005F, 2339, 0000, 0000
KSC0E=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC0F=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC10=0061, 237A, 0000, 0000, 0041, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC11=007A, 2375, 0000, 0000, 005A, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC12=0065, 220A, 0000, 0000, 0045, 2377, 0000, 0000
KSC13=0072, 2374, 0000, 0000, 0052, 221A, 0000, 0000
KSC14=0074, 223C, 0000, 0000, 0054, 2368, 0000, 0000
KSC15=0079, 2191, 0000, 0000, 0059, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC16=0075, 2193, 0000, 0000, 0055, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC17=0069, 2373, 0000, 0000, 0049, 2378, 0000, 0000
KSC18=006F, 25CB, 0000, 0000, 004F, 2365, 0000, 0000
KSC19=0070, 03C0, 0000, 0000, 0050, 2363, 0000, 0000
KSC1A=02C6, 2190, 0000, 005B, 0308, 235E, 0000, 0000
KSC1B=0024, 2192, 0000, 005D, 002A, 236C, 0000, 0000
KSC1C=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC1D=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC1E=0071, 003F, 0000, 0000, 0051, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC1F=0073, 2308, 0000, 0000, 0053, 00A7, 0000, 0000
KSC20=0064, 230A, 0000, 0000, 0044, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC21=0066, 221E, 0000, 0000, 0046, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC22=0067, 2207, 0000, 0000, 0047, 2362, 0000, 0000
KSC23=0068, 2206, 0000, 0000, 0048, 2359, 0000, 0000
KSC24=006A, 2218, 0000, 0000, 004A, 2364, 0000, 0000
KSC25=006B, 0027, 0000, 0000, 004B, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC26=006C, 2395, 0000, 0000, 004C, 2337, 0000, 0000
KSC27=006D, 234E, 0000, 0000, 004D, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC28=00F9, 2355, 0000, 0000, 0025, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC29=003C, 22C4, 0000, 005C, 003E, 236A, 0000, 0000
KSC2A=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC2B=00B5, 22A2, 0000, 0060, 00A3, 22A3, 0000, 0000
KSC2C=0077, 2282, 0000, 0000, 0057, 2286, 0000, 0000
KSC2D=0078, 2283, 0000, 0000, 0058, 2287, 0000, 0000
KSC2E=0063, 2229, 0000, 0000, 0043, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC2F=0076, 222A, 0000, 0000, 0056, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC30=0062, 22A5, 0000, 0000, 0042, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC31=006E, 22A4, 0000, 0000, 004E, 2361, 0000, 0000
KSC32=002C, 2366, 0000, 0000, 003F, 236D, 0000, 0000
KSC33=003B, 235D, 0000, 0000, 002E, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC34=003A, 233F, 0000, 0000, 002F, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC35=003D, 2340, 0000, 007E, 002B, 2299, 0000, 0000
KSC36=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC37=002A, 235F, 0000, 0000, 002A, 235F, 0000, 0000
KSC38=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC39=0020, 0020, 0020, 0020, 0020, 0020, 0020, 0020
KSC3A=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC3B=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC3C=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC3D=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC3E=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC3F=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC40=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC41=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC42=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC43=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC44=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC45=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC46=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC47=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC48=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC49=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC4A=002D, 00D7, 0000, 0000, 002D, 00D7, 0000, 0000
KSC4B=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC4C=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC4D=0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000, 0000
KSC4E=002B, 2339, 0000, 0000, 002B, 2339, 0000, 0000
ADel
 
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